If I was the one acting horribly, I hope the people around me would have the backbone to do the same. If it becomes too much I'm not obligated with the per diem job. Job Analysis: Law/Legal Issues: Federal Guidelines Impact of the Uniform Guidelines on Employee Selection Procedures The Uniform Guidelines on Employee Selection Procedures states that a thorough job analysis is needed for supporting a selection procedure (see: 60-3.9 - No assumption of validity. As a former manager and business owner myself, I would be EXTREMELY grateful to the person who let me know that shady stuff had been going on with one of my employees- and let me make this clear: even if this guys “sick wife” story were 100% true, the way he handled this was still shady AT BEST- even if I looked into it and discovered it was something legit or excusable in the end. Geez, I would not go scorched earth on this guy as some people suggest. It’s not against the law to work two jobs at once, and it’s not against the law to be a crappy employee. And even if he did steal from the register snooping through his LinkedIn calling his current ploywr and going “you should know he stole” is not reasonable. He f*cked up, majorly, but there is no reason to throw compassion and good faith out the window. Again, there’s no need to put your thumb on the scale for petty reasons. I think it’s highly unlikely that his wife *just happened* to *suddenly* come down with some sort of debilitating disease that would require employee to work from home, a mere THREE DAYS before the start date of his new job. She also had a string of various excuses about late payments that were varied, confusing, and piled up. I think it was a case where we were blinded by what seemed like good credentials in a pool of otherwise weak candidates. 4) Insurance. Based on the way employment law works in the US, it’s really doubtful. That is utter nonsense. And THEN milked it even more by taking PTO so he could work the other job! They did it again. Sick wife, kids, working 16 hour days to take care of them, was broke & desperate & panicked & screwed up? Either way, taking someone’s livelihood away is a huge deal. At $65,000/year, that’s over $10,000 stolen! I’d ordinarily say that the company needs to reassess its own procedures to safeguard against this in the future, but the likelihood of something like this ever happening again seems extremely remote at best. But not to someone who hasn’t. I don’t see why the PTO matters. Condemning him, or excusing him based on his story and our belief/disbelief is us playing a game to entertain ourselves. The level of accommodation this manager gave to the brand new employee was one that is typically given to someone with a well established record of reliability attained after a decent length of time with the company. By getting a second job you might be placed in a higher tax bracket such that you have to pay more taxes or give a higher withholding. You can’t defraud lawyers. Your assumptions are the basis for suggesting the guy’s professional reputation be destroyed. This two-timer could have done so much more damage if he had stayed; the dude obviously has no hesitation to lie or commit fraud. They may decide he’s worth keeping, but still need the information because the double employment caused conflicts of interest or jeopardized proprietary information or could damage a client relationship or any other reason. Sick Pay. I suppose if you were paying this guy for PTO while he was employed, that’s fraud and you can demand the money back. (And firing interns for taking initiative on something important to them *isn’t* petty? It’s 10x more likely (especially if we look at the dates) that he was applying to several jobs and got an offer from OP’s company. I’m in one of the tech companies that takes conflicts of interest and trade secrets very seriously; if someone did something like this with a job that was in any way related, they could throw the book at him. The guy was let go pretty quickly for performance so we didn’t catch on when he was still employed. I don’t know how it’s legal, but a friend almost ended up out $$$ after getting an on the job chemical burn. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Isn’t that what regulatory bodies like the DOL are for? If the sick wife is real, then he was in a hellish situation and may not have done this intentionally. Yes, OP does not need to call up and say “this person is a liar and a thief, you MUST fire him!” Instead, they can give a quiet heads up stating the facts of what happened, and say something along the lines of — “I don’t know how his performance is at your company, but I wanted to make sure you had full information in case this is helpful.”. A union could have gotten more prompt response, since failure to provide a safe work environment can be a breach of contract allowing for civil suits/work stoppages. After they blew up all their old friendships, some of us got together and realized that this toxic ex friend had lied to us all, so many times, so egregiously, and so inconsistently from person to person that none of us can be sure something was true unless we were there when it happened. But that other company has a right to know he was employed somewhere else at the same time he was working for them. So this gets real tricky. You’re not the first person it’s happened to, and you won’t be the last. site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. I mean, WTF. I think the reason it gets our goat so badly is that subconsciously we realize that unless strongly dissuaded these bad actors punish people for displaying goodwill, which means they victimize people in a particularly low way, but also they make it less likely for the victim to trust again. 3) 401K. So this guy might have been taking that time off unpaid, or he might not have had health benefits through that company yet. They are no longer married, not surprisingly. People tend to repeat patterns. There is no law that says you cannot work two different jobs. This is also how we end up with LWs who find out that one of their contacts knew Fergus/Jane were terrible employees and said nothing. Then he lied about that when we asked him about it and we both fired him. I’m with you on this, Mike C. I don’t understand this desire in some people to pursue this person to the ends of the Earth (or why you’re getting so much stick for calling them out on it). Period. And the fact that MIKE got reprimanded? To me, the important question for deciding how to react is: is the sick wife real? If I wanted to take a part-time landscaping job which would require me to flex my hours in the office, that would be a much bigger issue. There’s no way the employee wouldn’t have mentioned the second job as an issue if he weren’t trying to conceal it. You can just say what you know, and let other people draw their own conclusions. And lots of them actually work harder at pulling their scams than they would if they were actually working. I had this happen, only the guy was a solid performer. Another analogy would be if a former SO was very abusive. Leave it in the past and move forward with work. The company does not owe the scammer their silence. Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”. And then, assuming dire financial need was the impetus for his behavior, that money is gone. My employee handbook states that we’re required to disclose “actual or perceived conflicts of interest,” including but not limited to “accepting any outside employment that could potentially interfere with your attendance or satisfactory performance of your duties.” Failing to do so – and particularly asking for a flexible schedule under false pretenses in order to work another job – is considered a serious infraction. I’d hope one would be more circumspect before taking such extreme action. Accounting will eat your face before you’re fired for being a vigilante by HR. I don’t believe anything he said. Good, normal people can absolutely do bizarre, harmful, and/or dishonest things that are completely out of character. Doesn’t sound like he was non-exempt, though. You’re right, I should have threaded it under their post. I feel like it’s the same on both sides here, people are normally good about going “well sure we can’t know for sure but it’s reasonable to assume the quacking, paddling, waddling, duck-shaped object in your pond is indeed a duck.” But for some reason people are acting like we just can’t know enough about his situation to say this is exactly what it appears to be, and rather stridently insisting as well. (Probably not illegal though?). Since they claimed to be working and received payment for that but obviously didn’t work those hours, it is wage fraud. What specific political traits classify a political leader as a fascist? But he did lie about having two jobs. Of course it’s entirely possible that he really was operating in bad faith – I just don’t think we have enough info to really know. I worked retail, and after one inventory we showed a huge loss in one category, which was something only employees would have had access to- but the problem was that we had never even had enough of that category in stock AT ALL to show that kind of loss. I’ll bite. I’d tip off the new employer, and be devastatingly honest with anyone who asked if I knew this guy and what he was like. That would indeed be bold…but some people just have no self-awareness! He may not have been trying to scam them but rather been trying to figure out a way to make them both work. points out, we know absolutely nothing about the former employee’s job for new employer and whether the duties for new employer overlapped with time the former employee was getting PTO from the OP’s company. I still stand by the fact that’s not someone I’d want working for me. But I am puzzled by some folks seeming to suggest he didn’t do anything wrong at all and it’s all very reasonable if the story about the wife is taken at face value. If I’m recalling this correctly (someone please correct me if I am wrong) if this employee was an exempt employee and worked even part of a week, they are entitled to the salary for that week. the part about working around the children’s bedtime makes it sound like there were specific worktimes, not just ‘8 hours a day, whenever you feel like it’. Can you give it to them? And even after being caught & penalized? Many state laws have more protections for nursing mothers than federal law requires. 1) Some employers don't want you to have a part-time 2nd job. What I’d want to know is if they canned him. ” I called the HR department at his new company and they verified a start date of January 22.”. A good example is the case of marriage. (For example, you might be tempted to write a letter to his existing employer. By which I learned that if a bigwig takes a dislike to you, no matter how petty or irrational, they will use ANY excuse to get rid of you. We had to notify the company of ANY other jobs to make sure it wasn’t a conflict of interest. My organization hired a person to start on January 3 of this year as a sales development rep. At the time, he told me he lived about an hour and a half away, but he’d be moving to be closer to work shortly. And when his performance suffered at job one, and he couldn’t finish all his work? We can leave his wife and kids out of it while maintaining that he behaved in an awful way. Outside of retail, I’ve never had to accrue my time off. — but then didn’t inform them of the situation. If I stumbled across that on someone’s LinkedIn account, I’d be inclined regard that employer poorly more than I would the candidate. I’m in the middle of my 23rd year as a lawyer, and while it’s all fine and dandy in the abstract for people to say the OP should report the former employee’s “fraud and theft” to the new employer, as ANon. My husband is a manager at his job and has someone doing something similar, but they can’t fire him because of unions and he used intermittent FMLA to go to his other job. We all sat down together on her second or third day to get to know one another and everyone was very friendly to her so I have no idea where that came from. Seeing someone’s public LinkedIn profile is legal. – really, we know nothing about this job) Alison, I’d be really interested to get your take on whether taking active steps to spread the news is justifiable. I agree. I think that it’s a condition of FMLA that you aren’t working at another job. You seem to think that the point of telling the other company is to “get him fired” so as to further “punish” ex-employee for his dishonest actions. I seriously doubt it matters. The second job would need to know they were a second job anyway, because of income taxes, so it doesn’t strike me as odd for my first job to know about the second? Is the “preponderance of evidence” (I.e.the likelihood of guilt is >50%). Needed the money!) Bad reputation? Any further actions taken by the OP for petty revenge are on the OP. That’s time you can’t take back, and time you won’t get to spend with your family, friends, and on your personal needs. You’re informing this one employer of specific information that applies directly to his employment with this company, during a time he was working for them. I do them frequently for people who are trying to rent an apartment or buy a car. They would not want you working a 2nd full time job. It was an insane situation. As a person who’s not in a union, I just don’t follow that because I certainly wouldn’t throw my hands up and let Congress repeal the FLSA. Sigh, chalk it up to experience, and let everyone get on with their lives. I understand the temptation but I’m thinking of it a little like a breakup – move on with your life and you can probably safely assume this person’s garbage tendencies will show themselves wherever he ends up. As a former manager and business owner, *I* sure as hell would want that information about an employee! Not to work a second job. It might be a zebra, though, that’s true. You’ve been extremely adamant the whole time that he should be fired from his second job because fraud, but if your criteria is only that its fraud because he was a poorly performing employee then how is that consistent? I had a tough class load. Oh I don’t have a new job yet, but that’s what I’m hoping for! In the grand scheme of things, this is not the worst thing that could have ever happened. Although, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if there is something more genuine going on here — after all, if you’re in the US, health expenses are pretty staggering, and I wouldn’t put it past the realm of believability that he took on a second job (that it turned out he couldn’t maintain along with yours) in order to try and cover the bills. It didn’t just “appear” to be that way- it actually 100% WAS, no matter how good & pure his intentions. That was actually the last straw for me that convinced me to leave. It could be a mix of both. What more do you want? And FMLA usage is capped per rolling calendar year–any amount used now for his wife’s fake illness won’t be available should he or anyone he knows develop an actual ailment. So they don’t just have one victim, their victims are their original victim and every person that victim turns away in need for fear of being hurt again. All the scorched earth revenge fantasies are the kind of stuff that is fun on the internet but would probably make you feel pretty crappy in real life. You don’t need 100% proof to factually tell the employer what you know (e.g., he started on date X, told us Y and Z, we gave him paid time off, we didn’t know he was working for you, etc). As an anecdote I did have one coworker who flamed out after working two jobs. Even if the guy had the best of intentions, his story is 100% true, and he really needed the money, the way he handled the situation is completely unethical, and as an employer it would make me wonder what other kinds of dishonest behavior he would engage in if he felt driven to it by financial need or personal problems. For all we know, they are fictions created to cover for not being in. the insurance one is a good point - some places may require that you carry their insurance, in which case your other insurance may be affected because now you technically are in a "co-insurance" situation - best be sure to double check all that. So how could he be taking care of kids/wife all day, working 9-5 job at night and working PT job at night/weekends. Let it go. That would be my concern too. They are then welcome to do their own investigation and make their own determination — if it turns out that the guy was only working for this place part time, or has some other reasonable explanation, they may decide not to fire him. If you disagree, that’s 100% valid, but using rhetoric to diminish a viewpoint is a bad look. But, yeah, there is the small possibility that he was having some sort of family crisis and he really does need the job he has left. For one, there’s no obligation that employees must disclose all other jobs they have. Because it sounds like OP has significant suspicions and that the guy held two full-time jobs. Would *you* want to have an employee working for you who handled their personal problems that way? OP, how long ago did you two work together in your old job? Lots of people are also not quite so good or normal as they appear to others, especially people they are not close to, like coworkers. Doing a bad thing does not automatically make someone a bad person. And I’m really not sure why “person tries to hold two full time, M-F, 9-5 jobs at the same time” sounds anything other than hinky & dishonest to you? Amongst other things, She even started a teaching position 3 days a week full time and “did her job at night” which I am not sure how possible that was considering her job was to sell our product/services to business who were open during the day,not night Before that she was traveling in the middle of the week for mini vacations and posting on social media. Taking paid time off per se certainly isn’t fraud. To me, the right thing isn’t protecting a liar, but trying to root out what damage was done by said liar. What may often be overlooked, however, is that the 48-hour maximum applies to the working time of each worker, irrespective of how many jobs they have. Yeeeaaaahhh, most people don’t lie. In fact, our company begged her to stay and offered her a raise. I’m in the US and don’t have a contract, but there may be other ways this was against company policy. Fire him and move on. I don’t see anything unethical about working two jobs (unless you are knowingly working for competitors, etc) or being bad at your balancing your job/life. The risk of stress-related illness (and claims) increases significantly if staff work long hours, and employers that don’t keep tabs on the hours their staff work can be left liable. This wasn’t something minor – this employee took serious advantage of the company, and I wish they could get their wages back. And even *they* do good, wonderful, generous, helpful things for others when they want to. Truthfully relating to the other employer that he was paid for full-time work by OP’s company at the same time is a natural consequence most reasonable people would foresee, and judge as one of the factors that made this plan too risky. The other job fired him – they were in OP’s position, and warned us. To me it’s SO SO SO obvious this guy was just trying to get away with whatever scam he could as long as he could, and was using “sick wife & kids” as a sympathetic diversion/excuse. The Working Time Regulations are designed with health and safety in mind, but this can be a challenge for employers when workers have multiple jobs, says Phil Allen, Partner and employment law specialist at Weightmans LLP. Intentions aren’t magic and he doesn’t get a pass. Sometimes you do what you have to do, and a living spouse is more important than 100% forthrightness with your job! And perhaps not be so accommodating to the next person. Murphy, that’s your employer’s policy, though. I’m not excusing what he’s done at all. The much more likely case is that we don’t have all the information, and that the situation is a lot more nuanced. Separate your two jobs so they never overlap. Copyright © 2007 - 2021 Ask A Manager. our new hire started another full-time job the same week he started ours, interviews when you have food allergies, snow days when not everyone can work from home, and more, I have to read my boss’s emails … including ones about the love nest he’s setting up to cheat on his wife, I want to quit … but if I leave, my project will die, my employee fired someone whose mother had died the night before, I shaved my head and now my coworkers think I have cancer, I don’t want to take time off, and more, people keep asking me for meetings that could just be an email. We don’t even know there is a wife and kids. You don’t go after other employers, you don’t key his car, start dating his wife, or anything else. At my job we accrue time every month and you can get an advance for what you would accrue through the end of the calendar year (I think). Why would we say anything and ruin his life! 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