Unless you think a person can work 2 full time jobs in 8-10 hours, Owler is 100% correct. in order to take employment elsewhere would definitely be a breach of contract. But, yeah, there is the small possibility that he was having some sort of family crisis and he really does need the job he has left. Most states have laws against “maliciously preventing someone from obtaining or keeping employment” or similar phrasing, so it’s best to give facts only, not opinions or speculation, especially if it’s something that you know is a fireable offense or has a good chance of being. Wife , kids, illness aside… he was double employed and deceitful – but the intent is unknown. Taking money from the register and taking wages for a job you aren’t performing under false pretenses are both stealing. There was one guy trying to run a hustle and cutting his losses when he couldn’t pull it off. I didn’t tell either job about the other. It's about total income, how much withholdings you put in, then determine if there is anything you have to pay or if the IRS/State has to give you any money back. the part about working around the children’s bedtime makes it sound like there were specific worktimes, not just ‘8 hours a day, whenever you feel like it’. Since they claimed to be working and received payment for that but obviously didn’t work those hours, it is wage fraud. I don’t know…. I’m actually kind of surprised the doctor talked to him, what with HIPAA laws and all. I agree. In both scenarios, he’s scamming (or “scamming”) both jobs. Doctor’s are insanely lax about privacy when it comes to someone’s spouse, in my experience. Do what you will with the knowledge.” That’s it. This isn't trivial math and you may end up over or underpaying but at the end of the year that all gets reconciled through filing your tax returns. It’s OPs responsibility to cover up for his dishonesty so that he can feed his kids? 2) Social security. There are any number of reasons why he might have tried to work two jobs at once and, honestly, not many of them involve some kind of Machiavellian mastermind out to swindle innocent business owners. (Probably not illegal though?). And I’m going to say that even if his story is 100% true, the two job’s hours didn’t conflict, and he had zero intentions of scamming anyone, the way he handled the situation was STILL deceitful and unethical, and shows such incredibly poor judgement that he is a liability for any company he works for. PTO stands for “paid time off. we really don’t know the full situation here.”. Whether he did work or not is irrelevant. That’s. Lest anyone think I’m trying to stand above the fray, I think it’s normal, albeit difficult, to have two jobs, and that revenge is reprehensible (though sometimes fun to think about). If OPs office had benefits that kicked in right away, but the new place had the common waiting period of around 60-90 days, the timing works perfectly for this theory. Except he did complete work. And while he was dropping a lot of balls, it does seem like he did at least some work for LW’s company. so he decided to take it and be all shady. Actually, we never could prove it but the person was out of the office often enough that we got suspicious. I love that movie!!! Balancing two jobs is not the issue here; it’s the lying and failing to do work that he did. Maybe I’m just misunderstanding Grad Student’s comment – I read it as saying that unions are the only thing stopping Congress et al from stripping existing worker protections, so they need to continue to exist or the few rights that are codified into law could be freely repealed. What are the legally required costs to the employer when giving a raise? The OP’s company isn’t entitled to the entire salary back, and the employee did do at least some work for OP’s company, and for the time he was actually working for them he earned that part of his salary. I don’t think we should forego conversations about proportional response because society consistently suggests that harassment deserves a minimal one for misogynist reasons. Or was it nothing more than a scam all along — he got two job offers and figured he might as well accept both and get paid for both as long as he could? That leaves him 7-8 hours in which he must make fit: Actions he freely chose, by the way, no matter what his life circumstances were. I may be biased, but it sounds like something my first ex-husband would do. They did it again. But in reality a professional who did this would fry their reputation as well. If we assume the employee really does have a sick wife, then *that* is the root of his performance issue – not this other job. Nope. We have OP’s suspicions and a story that sound s not entirely credible. And surprise surprise, he couldn’t do both at once. Please move on. No, we declined to hire him. Explain that you’ve uncovered their scheme and that you are going to go to HR at the new company. It was doing work throughout the week correct? If it’s good enough for a multimillion dollar lawsuit it should be good enough to justify factually reporting to their real (?) There may no longer be a huge fight for things like the concept of a weekend and not being allowed to douse workers in toxic chemicals, but healthy, productive unions are necessary for continued monitoring, compliance with regulations, and keeping laws and regulations updated and current. But it all came crashing down when someone from her new job (a relative of a manager at our company) spilled the beans. The Working Time Regulations are designed with health and safety in mind, but this can be a challenge for employers when workers have multiple jobs, says Phil Allen, Partner and employment law specialist at Weightmans LLP. – really, we know nothing about this job) I guess it’s technically not stripping protections if the class never had them? I take the OP seriously and think this guy is horrid but don’t take your ship down on this kind of crusade over a few thousand corporate bucks you’ll never see again. We’ll both make out well on it!) They won't stop until you reach the maximum with them. I guess it depends on what the OP said when she called…was she upfront about why she called, or did she use a guise? On January 19, he called me and told me he was going through some family issues. Even if he doesn’t put down the OP’s employer, even if he never moves there, and even if he never says a peep about his “work” there, there are no guarantees no one else will ever find out what he did. Someone willing to go to these lengths is likely to be dishonest in other ways that may impact that company. Or one that you found out had lied to you, and was working another job, scheduled for the same hours they were supposed to be working for you? We don’t even know there is a wife and kids. That would be 80 hours a week. Second, pursuing him around town and wrecking his chances at any other jobs, as some commenters have suggested (without sarcasm tags, WTF) would just make the OP look like a raging vindictive numbskull. In that case, sending you all the good thoughts and hope you find the perfect position soon. Taking paid time off per se certainly isn’t fraud. He then went on PTO. If I was the one acting horribly, I hope the people around me would have the backbone to do the same. From the information we have here, he certainly deserves to be fired. I was just saying that “I can use my PTO for whatever I want” is not the case for everyone. Yeah, that happened with my old company. And they were actions he freely chose, even if he did them out of panic or financial desperation. And if I found out another employer knew about this and didn’t alert me? And I think that is it *exactly*. 3. But if people there were in my network, I’d probably mention it. No, because the company he is now with, he was also defrauding when he was working for LW at the same time. There’s no way the employee wouldn’t have mentioned the second job as an issue if he weren’t trying to conceal it. site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. Yeah, without evidence HR at my previous – non-union job – wouldn’t let the manager fire an employee for using intermittent FMLA, either. If OP’s company had hired someone else for the position, and that person got fired for doing little to no work, the company could be out the same two months worth of paychecks. I wrote above that OP should waste time or money trying to recoup a salary, but a phone call to HR takes 15 minutes max. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. She said she understood and not to worry if that did come up. Unless you’re looking for someone with big floppy shoes! Yes it sucks, but trying to get revenge isn’t worth it. Agreed, Health Insurance Nerd. If OP did not request this on behalf of her company, then that’s a policy to consider implementing for the future and a learning experience for the OP. All serious, i.e. So many commenters here jumping to conclusions. If this guys moral compass is really that far off, he’ll dig his own grave at the other job sooner or later. Take a step back and think about what exactly you’re advocating for.”. Encourage staff to disclose information about their other jobs. But if he was feeding them sob stories, failing to perform, and failing to disclose, that’s time theft. Especially if it turns out there is some truth in what he’s saying. Employers should ensure their paid sick leave policies are up to date. Legally, there is nothing wrong with it. Katniss, I don’t know if I would go that far but it would be good to know, if the OP can find out without being unethical. It’s not the employer’s right to know what an employee does with his/her time off! My assumptions are justified and justifiable. Even if his wife is actually sick (which I don’t believe for a second) and they really need the money, how he handled the situation was shady and dishonest. And with gas prices and health insurance premiums on the rise and many incomes frozen, extra income can be a lifeline. I also want to work as much as possible for a year or two to get my debt paid off. It’s hard to say either way, but it seems the letter writer knew the employee from another place, so I am guessing if it was a lie or if it was suspicious for this guy to be mentioning family, she might have mentioned it? He burned them to the tune of two months of salary. You said it: some people have no self-awareness! I’m not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt and I’m really surprised at the effort people expending to justify their revenge fantasies. I suspect most businesses would be very grateful to be tipped off that they’ve hired someone who can wreak havoc within their company, and BEFORE they have to go through a bunch of long drawn out BS with him like LW did. In my industry we’re all “frenemies” (because I can’t put you out of business, will you please form a partnership with me to provide service to Maine? It makes her a part of the fraud, imo. If he doesn’t, you pick up the phone and call every other related company in town and explain exactly what happened. Not saying what he did was right, but you might not feel so terrible about being scammed if this is the story you tell yourself: He worked two jobs to pay for his sick wife’s bills and even though what he did was dishonest and wrong, maybe he wouldn’t have done it if he weren’t desperate. It is easy to have too little withheld. Seems fair. How do these lines in Shakespeare's Sonnet 151 mean what they're supposed to? That’s a pretty extreme statement, and that’s what Mike C was reacting to. Taking the employee at his word that his wife was actually ill. I’ve heard of some elaborate plans and actions that people take for healthcare. What a sleazy person. I think the OP should say what she knows to him because this guy deserves to lose some sleep at night over this. I like the analogy above about this being the professional equivalent of finding out your spouse is married to someone else. I had this happen, only the guy was a solid performer. Whatever this guy was going through, she’s been treated really, really badly. Going after this guy’s other employers to ensure that he never works again is like demanding a pound of flesh. That’s time you can’t take back, and time you won’t get to spend with your family, friends, and on your personal needs. I then took a second 8-5, which was on-site, and did the absolute bare minimum of work for the first employer. I agree with Alison’s advice on this, behaving in a petty or vindictive manner against this former employee could easily result in consequences for the employer that would exceed the value of any salary or benefits the employee was able to obtain. It happens. The OP’s HR department should also be made aware of what the OP did so that they know not to rehire this guy. If he’s truly awful, his other employer will figure it out. Somehow, the boss found out so he called the other company and asked for Jane Doe. And while it’s all too fresh to appreciate it now, the OP is going to have a damn good story about this whole fiasco. He already got his. 1) Some employers don't want you to have a part-time 2nd job. This kind of potential situation is part of the reasoning behind employers requesting documentation to support requests to care for one’s own or family member’s serious health issue, especially when it involves PTO or schedule accommodations. It’s like business owners telling reviewers they’re lying etc. “Oh, well… she wasn’t on our company insurance.” And even if that were true, why the hell would ANYONE take a second job that required them to work the same hours/days as their first one? Someone else, I totally agree with you here: Many states … So how could he be taking care of kids/wife all day, working 9-5 job at night and working PT job at night/weekends. Yeeeaaaahhh, most people don’t lie. Pretty sure he can delete recommendations on his LinkedIn. They hired someone from a competitor and he ended up continuing to work for his old company. Turns out he was walking across the street to the other company that he never quit when he took our job. Wow, um, that….I have not words. So I was saying above that like, if it were a case of “had legit sick wife and did something unethical involving work because of it” yeah tbh I’d drop it. Just got a per diem position and I will continue looking for full time work. That doesn’t necessarily make it less messed up. (His wife really is quite ill. Yeah, that’s a great way to end up with a police record for extortion. He couldn’t have looked for a nights & weekends job? I’m not saying “BURN HIM.” I think it really would be petty to actively try to ruin his wider reputation, or to stalk him from employer to employer to let them all know. The whole point of reputation is that how you treat one person can serve as a warning to others that you might do the same to him. And that other company deserves to know that they have an employee working for them who will solve his personal/financial problems by panicking and engaging in shady, dishonest, unethical behavior that could end up costing them thousands of dollars. Write up an incident report, put it in his employee file and mark him as ineligible for rehire. I’d go out of my way to ruin his reputation. I almost envy the people who think these kinds of situations are exaggerated…“almost” because the only way you really learn this kind of stuff is the hard way. Better to say, “unfortunately, during training we do need you to be here reliably, is that something you can commit to?”. The only time there would be actual recourse is if there’s an overpayment after he’s gone and it’s established he’s no longer on the payroll there. Intentions aren’t magic and he doesn’t get a pass. It’s sucky, but I don’t think I’d pursue somebody who did that, even if I fantasized doing it. I’d be inclined to contact him through LinkedIn all “WTActualF, dude?”. Sleeping (a big time suck there lol) You have to assume that the video hasn’t been edited by a theif who managed to skillfully edit the video as well steal the money. They did it until they got caught and, oddly enough, EDD didn’t accept that as an excuse for theft. Any job at all – it’s about capacity, not competition. OP should let it go, forget about it, stop being petty? One’s a situation where a person worked two jobs for 2 months, doing a poor job of one of them, and then quit. For instance, you probably know whether he genuinely has kids. All we know is that he wasn’t able to juggle both jobs. What he did was equivalent to taking money out of the register, except this was to the tune of thousands, rather than hundreds, of dollars. If you’re clever, you invent a catch-all lie that’s difficult to disprove and that doesn’t require further explanation. Very much this. You’re informing this one employer of specific information that applies directly to his employment with this company, during a time he was working for them. What consequences do you think should flow to you for ruining the reputation of someone based on a false assumption? I don’t think she was ever actually contacted – just made me feel a bit better – that she knew that if she was contacted it wasn’t because I didn’t have the self-awareness to not use her. (We don’t know if he also was on leave status with job #2.). And did it WHILE doubly employed at the place he is now working, who deserve to know that they have an employee who (AT BEST) will make terrible decisions to do shady & deceitful things when they are under stress or in a personal crisis. A reputation doesn’t stay secretly within a single company. As with so many things around here, you’re not “getting him fired” – he behaved in a way that (potentially) got himself fired. By denting a thief of gainful employment all you are doing is I suring they will have to continue being a criminal. — but then didn’t inform them of the situation. You can’t claw back wages because someone violated handbook policies. Because if his wife is sick, and unable to take care of her kids, this dude is collecting two salaries while not working. Some folks use it to mean “personal time off,” but regardless, it’s not necessarily illegal or fraudulent to take PTO (whether it’s paid or unpaid). All we know is that he had two full-time jobs and a difficult to believe (but still possibly true) story about a really awful family medical situation. Acting in bad faith doesn’t require pitchforks, but it’s a bit frustrating to see so many people defend this guy. > I read it as saying that unions are the only thing stopping Congress et al from stripping existing worker protection. And in the US, making true statements about someone’s actions is not defamation. Both will withhold social security. First I am a single mom whose daughter had a mental breakdown 4 years ago. What a horrible person. US labor laws are a joke, and their enforcement is even more of a joke – because a lot of powerful people ensure it stays that way. Call the ex-employee. I can’t imagine many people trying to pull this off with the assumption they were going to get this accommodating of a boss. Look at how many of Congress’ recent attempts at legislature have been thwarted by massive call-in and social media campaigns. That isn’t worth ruining someone’s life over. employer a favor by informing them of their employee’s theft. Just got a per diem position and I will continue looking for full time work. WTF? It didn’t just “appear” to be that way- it actually 100% WAS, no matter how good & pure his intentions. And if you do this, you don’t deserve to work at all. Except he was supposed to be there during the day, and got leave to stay home to ‘look after his kids’. He had excuses on the start date due to moving logistics (moved from overseas to be closer to grandkids) , then missed a lot of work due to his immune system adjusting to new germs. Should he need a future reference from OP’s company (and he just might, and very soon, if he continues to play dumb games like this), then we’re back to it being a-okay to tell everything. We had way more of an issue with the lying than the two jobs thing. This is what a reputation is. Alaska – where the odds are good, but the goods are odd. What he did was wage theft. I had an employee ask if I’d be a reference… in the middle of a disciplinary meeting. And even after being caught & penalized? If someone is honest about working 2 jobs, is a crappy employee at both, and the companies are too lazy to fire them – is that fine with you? Don’t let this guy poison your work life. But we also have employers who break those wage and labor laws on a regular basis, and the union provides assistance and support for people reporting that crap. Even if you are only taking on a holiday job to help afford holiday activities, it can be draining on you. Same. Mind you, this could mean anything from OP’s company pays market rate but doesn’t contribute to relocation to that OPs company pays below market rate. He told HR he needs intermittent FMLA to care for his wife who has a disease where there are bad and good days. It also doesn’t amount to stalking by any definition in any state. He got an offer from Job B and took it because it’s “better” (in one way or another) didn’t have the adultness to back out of the job with OP’s company…and thought he could bluff/buy time/get PTO money and disappear into the sunset…. Even if he was operating in completely good faith, his actions were dishonest and unethical. 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