Niall fitted out a large fleet and sailed to the assistance of his people. Fiachrae gives her a quick peck, but not enough to satisfy her. mutations (changes) occur infrequently but, when they do, they help to [7 ] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. McVoy says the Y chromosome appeared to trace back to one person. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. Father of Fiachu mac Nill, King of Meath; Conall Gulban mac Nill, King of Tirconal; Egan mac Nill; Legaire, High King of Ireland; Min mac Nill and 3 others; Conall Cremthainn mac Nill; Cairbre mac Nill, High King of Ireland and ndae mac Nill less, There are arguments to be made for Niall as an historical figure, but the father assigned to him in the genealogies comes from a long line of legendary kings; his profile can be found here: Eochaid mac Muiredach mac Muiredach, Ard-r na h'ireann {Legendary, Lebor Gabla renn}, http://www.friesian.com/perifran.htm#england. In Irish Kings and High Kings (Dublin, 1973), John Francis Byrne prefers a much earlier date for Niall's death and also suggests the Three Collas never existed. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. Niall and his dynasty. Niall of the Nine Hostages - FamilyTreeDNA Forums By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. [14], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded.[4]:70. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. Throughout the 1600 and 1700s, thousands of Irish men of fighting age would migrate to Europe as 'Soldiers for Hire' to fight in various wars. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. straight into the modern world when scientists at Trinity College Dublin Seeing Niall's popularity among the nobles, Mongfind demands that Eochaid name a successor, hoping it will be one of her sons. [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. [ 11] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. There is a similarity in both names that it is likely it is the same person. 279. r/23andme. [2] Famous descendants include Niall's great-great grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. part of France), King of Ireland. [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. Niall of the Nine Hostages - Celtic Wedding Rings Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. hunting with his four brothers. The center of his government was at Tara. Furthermore, the paper examined only 17 STR loci, which are not a reliable means of verifying descent, as SNPs, which define haplogroups and subclades, would be. [5] These sons are the eponymous ancestors of the various U Nill dynasties: Egan of the Cenl nEgain and Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, making up the northern U Nill; Fiachu of the Cenl Fiachach dynasty, Legaire (the king who Saint Patrick is said to have converted) of the Cenl Legaire, Maine of the U Maine, Egan of the Cenl nEgain, Conall Cremthainne of the Clann Cholmin and the Sl nedo Sline, and Coirpre of the Cenl Coirpri, making up the southern U Nill. Talk about your genes and their possible implications! [21] However, geneticists today do not believe that the haplotype presented in the Moore paper represents descent from Niall of the Nine Hostages as Niall, being possibly mythical, does not have verifiable remains that can be tested. Perhaps more myth than man, Niall of the Nine Hostages is said to have been a King of Tara in northwestern Ireland in the late 4th century C.E. I welcome your input, feedback and support: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1195848313/niall-and-the-stone Niall Nogallach (Old Irish "having nine hostages") (pronounced [ni%CB%90%CB%88%C9%99l nojilax])[1], English: Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, the eponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. St Patrick: Kidnapped by Pirates and Enslaved at 16 - HISTORY Known as Niall of the Nine Hostages from the nine counties of Ireland that he subued and made tributary to him. latter a misleading term that should not be construed as meaning the bearer had In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. strongest associations are with the surnames traditionally linked to the Ui While Moore et al. [10] nna's son Eochaid is named as Niall's killer in all sources, although the circumstances vary. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. control of all the island. The story By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. About this group. Irelands most popular baby names of 2022 - by county! While Cairenn is pregnant with Niall, the jealous Mongfind forces her to do heavy work, hoping to make her miscarry. [3]:70, T. F. O'Rahilly argues that Niall and his sons were responsible for the breakup of the ancient kingdom of Ulster and the creation of the kingdoms of Tr Chonaill and Tr Eoghain, and the satellite kingdom of the Airgalla. Receive the latest from your DNA community. 4) [S10166] "Possible parents of Naill by Brian Tompsett 23 November 1997". The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. 452. r/23andme - Anyone else related to Niall of the Nine Hostages? Was he Legend has it that it was Niall of the Nine Hostages who, on a raid in Wales, captured a young slave and brought him to Ireland. Also known as Niall of the Nine Hostages.. Often this information is passed down through family stories, for instance, my mother claims to be a quarter Irish and so Im apparently one-eighth Irish. Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late 4th and early 5th centuries, although modern scholars, through critical study of the annals, date him about half a century later. [10] He is succeeded by his nephew Nath . Byrne suggests that Niall's death took place during a raid on Roman Britain. Famous descendants include Niall's great-great-grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. concluded that these men descend from "a single early-medieval progenitor" and implied this was associated with Niall's dynasty. Editors note: This post has been edited to reflect changes to the 23andMe ancestry product. Yet his fall in a foreign land was to be compassed, not by the strategy or might of the foreign enemy, but by the treachery of one of his own. [4] Byrne, following James Carney, is a little more precise, dating his death to c. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. Niall exiles him to Scotland. Many and many a time, in Alba, in Britain, and in Gaul, must Niall have measured his leadership against the best leadership of Rome, and pitted the courage and wild daring of his Scotic hosts against the skill of the Imperial Legions. He gave rise to the powerful and widespread O'Neil (Ui Neill) dynasty of . Why not list William the Conqueror or someone else? , 'The Family Tree Irish Genealogy Guide' is full of advice, tips and strategies to ease what can be a challenging journey. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinsterare not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. ), "The Story of Eochaidh Muighmedin's Sons", in, Stokes, Whitley (ed. If 23andMe says you're M222+, that part is not BS. Niall was famed for his raids on Britain along with his brothers and sons. I, A Social History of Ancient Ireland, Vol. Press J to jump to the feed. In 405 he led an expedition against Britain, where it is rumored that he may have captured a young Romano-British boy named Patricus, son of Calpurnius, a local magistrate. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht,Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. Niall of the Nine Hostages received his name from the taking of hostages as a strategy for playing mental havoc upon his opponent chieftains. 23andMe will give you the basic results for Ydna but . Niall does not have verifiable remains that can be tested. I'm stuck at R-P311 and 23andme gives Niall of the Nine Hostages which is flat out DUMB. [22][23] According to the PBS documentary series Finding Your Roots, Bill O'Reilly, Stephen Colbert, Colin Quinn, Bill Maher, and the show's host, Henry Louis Gates Jr. all display STR markers consistent with the Irish Modal Haplotype. They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. Mong Fionn was a bitter, jealous and ambitious woman, who set her heart upon having her son, Brian, succeed his father as Ard Righ. Acceded:445. 4.00. xenophon agesilaus summary; Oh, got it. Our DNA tests indicate that we "share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages." According to 23andMe.com, "The spread of haplogroup R-M269 in northern Ireland and Scotland was likely aided by men like Niall of the Nine The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. I am not sure if his father Eochy Moyvone is the same person as shown im other sources namely Echu Mugmedn, so I have shown both. [8] Death, The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. This was expected of someone of his status in a polygamous society where all modern parlance, he put it about. 85% of Irish men belong to a paternal lineage called R1b1b2, but since this line is also common across the rest of western Europe, it doesnt definitively determine if a man has Irish ancestry. There was also an Irish Regiment in Sicily in the early 1700s. Niall was said to have ruled over Tara, but modern historians think it more likely that Tara was founded by Niall's decendents, and that Niall himself actually set up his kingdom at Uisnech, another "royal hill". Confirm your suspicions or surprise yourself with a DNA test DNA - It's something so personal and integral to who you are and where you come from, but often it remains a total mystery. Patrick escaped from Ireland after six years of slavery, became a bishop, and returned to Ireland to convert its people to Christianity." Are you familiar with the Irish 'Wild Geese'? The haplogroup that is associated with Niall of the Nine Hostages is M222, which is part of M269 but definitely not the same thing. [13], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. 100% Irish? In He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. Descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages | Facebook Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. Some clarity would be welcome if anyone has done extensive research on this pedigree. Niall of the Nine Hostages, whose dynasty dominated Ireland between the 5th and 10th Centuries, got his name from taking hostages as a strategy against his opponent chieftains. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Just how extensive an area he may have dominated is not recorded but he He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Meath) and also captured a Briton, a Gaul, a Saxon and a Scot. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. After the death of Niall of the Nine Hostages, one of his sons, Laedhaire, Hi, i've posted my results recently, being of predominantly Italian (paternal) and Polish origin. [10 ] nna's son Eochaid is named as Niall's killer in all sources, although the circumstances vary. and tr. He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. [15][16] Origin of his epithet, There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. The Curiosity Gene: How 23andMe Dominated a Billion - MarketSmiths It is his (Niall's) family.". Are McKenna's descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages? Joined then by the Irish in Alba, he marched against the Picts, overcame them, took hostages from them and had Argyle and Cantire settled upon the Albanach Irish. Scan this QR code to download the app now. Autosomal DNA, which is what we use to measure percentages of ethnicity, only has strong relevance for about 6-10 generations back. So how do you know if you have Irish ancestry? Distant view of Round Tower at Glendalough, Neill, 23andme specifies it as R-M269 and says "You share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages". Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. The paternal DNA lineages were less diverse likely as a result of the early dominance of a few male leaders like King Niall of the Nine hostages, as well as to the historical influence of the Viking raids from across the North Sea. Privacy Policy. powerful people who controlled an area loosely centred on present-day Armagh I got that same badge in my 23andme YDNA report. absence of a DNA sample direct from the man himself, Trinity's team of The signature is especially [5] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. Variations of this story are told of the earlier Irish high king Lugaid Logde, in Arthurian legendone of the most famous versions appears in both Geoffrey Chaucer's The Wife of Bath's Tale and the related Gawain romance, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelleand in John Gower's Middle English poem Confessio Amantis. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. If Irish Claim Nobility,Science May Approve - The New York Times He carried back hostages, many captives, and great booty from these expeditions. Consider helping the NIALL Project, a DNA descendants group of Niall geneticists collected a number of samples from men across Ireland. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Genographic Project director Spencer Wells then discussed the study's collective results revealing maternal and paternal Geno 2.0 results. His father, Eochaid Muig Medon, son of Muiredeach, became Ard Rich mid way of the fourth century. signature is created. For instance, the chiefs of Clan Donald are now known to belong to a branch of Haplogroup R1a, which split from Niall's hypothetical lineage over 20,000 years ago. There is nothing weird about someone with 0.00% measurable Irish ethnicity being one of his descendants. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. [3] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. She grants Niall not only water but her name, Alexi, and the kingship for many generations twenty-six of his descendants will be High Kings of Ireland. Because of that, the identification of M222 with Niall's descendants is "difficult to justify". [9 ], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. In the "When Scots came thundering from the Irish shores. Furthermore, the paper examined only 17 STR loci, which are not a reliable means of verifying descent, as SNPs, which define haplogroups and subclades, would be. Niall's first expedition was into Alba to subdue the Picts. Niall's legendary military skill was on a par with his sexual prowess. Eochaid gives the task to a druid, Sithchenn, who devises a contest between the brothers, shutting them in a burning forge, telling them to save what they can, and judging them based on which objects they choose to save. however, steps right up to the mark, agreeing not only to kiss her but also to Muireann herself occurs in the annals, as in a poem quoted in AT s.a. 649, and her great-grandfather.Aed is mentioned again in a separate entry in the Ban Shenchus.. 3) [S10139] "Irish Pedigrees by John O'Hart , part 1, chapter IV". But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. (Princess Of Britain ROIGHNEACH was born about 380. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. [6], Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne and Coirpre. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1195848313/niall-and-the-stone http://www.genealogy4u.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I17949& http://www.dcs.hull.ac.uk/cgi-bin/gedlkup/n=royal. Husband of Inne ingen Lugaid and Roigneach ingen Meadaib [6], http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_of_the_Nine_Hostages. Hughes says "Niall himself must have died not before the middle of the fifth century". [3]:81, Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. After obtaining obedience from the Picts, his next foreign raid was into Britain. the right to found a royal line elsewhere in Ireland. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. [15] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. Irish tradition had forgotten that the Romans once ruled Britain, and relocated his remembered confrontations with the Empire to continental Europe, with Alba, the ancient name for Britain, being confused with Elpa, the Alps, or being understood with its later meaning of Scotland. [7]:216217 Keating describes her not as a Saxon but as the "daughter of the king of Britain". [17] The Scottish Clan Ewen of Otter, Gilchrist; Clan Lamont; the MacSorleys of Monydrain,[18] (of Clan MacDonald of Dunnyveg a branch of Clan Donald); Clan Maclachlan; Clan MacNeil, and the MacSweens all claim a descent from an Irish prince of the O'Neill dynasty, nrothn Ua Nill/Anrothan O'Neill, son of ed, son of Flaithbertach Ua Nill, King of Ailech and Cenl nEgain, who left Ireland for Kintyre in the 11th century and died 1036. I descend from the same Sephardic Jewish clan over a dozen times. That is to say, after 6-10 generations, you will lose track of entire ancestors and their ethnicity. Niall Nogallach (Niall of the Nine Hostages) was an Irish king, the ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. She grants Niall not only water but the kingship for many generations - twenty-six of his descendants will be High Kings of Ireland. According to National Geographic, the Mayo County Council hosted the Genographic Project for the Gathering under the theme of diaspora and cultural exchange. r/23andme - Curious to know what other historical figures 23 and me But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. Niall, the son of Ivocatus Magumedonus ('Eochaidh the Slave-ruler'), came to lead the Connachta in the fifth century AD.[8]. [2] The chronology of Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn broadly agrees, dating his reign from 368-395, and associating his raiding activities in Britain with the kidnapping of Saint Patrick (ca. If Patrick was not this person, he would have lived shortly thereafter. Boyle, Bradley, Campbell, Cannon, Coleman, Connor, Devlin, Doherty, Donnell, Fiachrae is granted a minor royal line two of his descendants, Nath and Ailill Molt, will be High Kings. There is a large community of M222 men and a very interesting "family tree" of sorts is emerging as these men get into Y-DNA testing. A significant proportion of Kathleen Hughes, "The church in Irish society, 400800, in Dibh Crinn (ed.). Journal reference: American Journal of Human Genetics (February issue). Niall of the Nine Hostages | Legendary Irish High Kings The mighty warrior king Niall Nogallach dominates the twilight world between history and legend. People move. Privacy Policy. Niall of the Nine Hostages was so named because in his early reign he consolidated his power by taking hostages from opposing royal families. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. Based on U Nill genealogies and the dates given for his supposed sons and grandsons, modern historians believe he is likely to have lived some 50 years later than the traditional dates, dying circa 450.[4]. The findings of the study showed that within the north-west of Ireland as many as 21% of men (8% in the general male population) were concluded to have a common male-line ancestor who lived roughly 1,700 years ago. Niall's accession to the throne possibly took place around 379AD. | Home Page | Disclaimer | Contact | Sitemap |. The association with Niall is based on an outdated study that noted many M222 men have surnames that supposedly come from Niall or his descendants. Legaire, High King of Ireland+ d. 463 (1), http://www.thepeerage.com/p11402.htm#i114018, -----------------------------------------------, Further information: U Nill descendants. Legend accords him at Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person,[2]:70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. The Genographic Project Team, who conducted the study, returned to County Mayo to reveal the ancestry results of 100 local residents who participated in the Gathering Ireland event in June 2013. His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill at Jordanstown, a few miles west of Navan in County Meath. and probably less reliable, story is that Niall took a hostage from each of His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. The little Irish (Scotic) colony in that part of Alba just opposite to Antrim had gradually been growing in numbers, strength, and prestige - until they excited the jealousy and enmity of the Picts, who tried to crush them. Home - Niall of the Nine Hostages - hughmckenna.org the brothers, Fergus, goes off to look for water and comes upon an ugly hag. A second, [4]:7678[8]:220 Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. For more information, please see our Haplogroup R-CTS11824 Niall of the Nine Hostages : r/23andme [11] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. His name comes from a tale of nine hostages that he held from the regions he ruled over. More recently 23andMe redefined it as R-P311 from an early ancestor associated with group M269. Niall Nogallach (Old Irish for "having nine hostages"), or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, was a prehistoric Irish king, the ancestor of the U Nill dynasties that dominated the northern half of Ireland from the 6th to the 10th century.

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